Tuesday, May 5, 2009

Obama Pushes for Anti-Gun Treaty That Could Subject American Citizens to Extradition and Trial in Foreign Courts

Here is a direct link to the CNN video:


It is more commonly known by its Spanish acronym, SIFTA, and was signed by then President Clinton in 1997 but was not ratified by the Senate. You can read the text of the treaty here.
Here is a Politico article on Obama's resurrection of this treaty signed by Clinton. And here is one in the Washington Post. And here is a good article about this proposed treaty in the Gun Rights Examiner, which discusses how it could even reach reloaders who are trying to save a buck in the face of increasing ammo prices. And here is an excellent write up by Gun Owners of America which further expands on the sweeping ramifications of this very vague treaty.

Hmm, I wonder what will happen if I do this ...

Obama: Sticking His Hand Down a Badger Hole to See What Happens

I am increasingly convinced that Obama and his advisers are socially and politically "autistic" in a way - they just don't get it.

First, Obama shows how clueless he is by making the modest proposal that returning injured and disabled war veterans should have to pay for their own medical care, thus insulting not just millions of veterans, but also sending a clear message to the current serving military of just what Obama thinks of them - not much.

Then his underlings in the DHS insult millions of us veterans (and also current serving military) yet again by categorizing us as potential terrorist threats. Either the people in power in the Obama administration truly are clueless or they just can't help letting us "traditional Americans" know what they really think of us.

And now, even though members of his own party have warned him repeatedly that trying to enact gun control is really not a good idea, Obama just cannot resist the temptation to stick his hand down that particular badger hole and start poking around, oblivious to the potential unintended consequences, by seeking to impose a byzantine regime of gun registration and tracking on the American people by means of this international treaty.

And according to the language in this proposed treaty, U.S. citizens accused of violating its terms would be punished under international law and would be subject to extradition to foreign countries:

Article XIX

1. This article shall apply to the offenses referred to in Article IV of this Convention.

2. Each of the offenses to which this article applies shall be deemed to be included as an extraditable offense in any extradition treaty in force between or among the States Parties. The States Parties undertake to include such offenses as extraditable offenses in every extradition treaty to be concluded between or among them.

3. If a State Party that makes extradition conditional on the existence of a treaty receives a request for extradition from another State Party with which it does not have an extradition treaty, it may consider this Convention as the legal basis for extradition with respect to any offense to which this article applies.

That means the U.S. government could arrest you for something you did at home, in the U.S. and then, if it so chose, extradite you, sending you away to a foreign nation for trial for violating this anti-gun treaty.

Does that sound familiar? It should. Remember, among the grievances against King George listed in the Declaration of Independence were:

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation: ....

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

This proposed treaty thus combines several of the causes of our Revolution. Good lord, is Obama trying to repeat history? - Stewart Rhodes


YeOldFurt said...

The Oath Keepers defined "a line in the sand". Looks like they're ready to cross it. The question is, are we ready to back up our rhetoric?

O.K. said...

We aren't there yet, but I agree they are certainly pushing in that direction. And I know for a fact that there are many gun owners who are just sick and tired of giving ground and simply won't back up any more. I just wish the fools in Washington DC would "get it" and back the hell off. But that doesn't seem likely.

Anonymous said...

Obama needs to be impeached, God help us but I'm afraid he is going to start a civil war and my husband and I will be right in there with the rest of the gun owners. This is getting to be worst then tyranny, I just hope there will be enough people that will fight and that will not just give up ther guns, We will be slaves if this happens. I sent you $50.00 and as soon as I get that paid I will send some more. We have to all stick together to win this fight. I heard that there are 20,000 to 120,000 foriegn troops in American, I wonder if thats how he plans on taking our guns away.

HighlanderJuan said...

Folks, don't forget the Constitution. We have SCOTUS support in Miranda:

"Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them." -- Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436 (1966)

In all legislative respects, the POTUS and Congress can be as unlawful and illegal as they choose to be, but they end up in the wrong side if they do.

For Oath Keepers, this means the unlawful laws and/or treaties are null and void if they are in contradistinction to the Constitution.

Especially the Second Amendment.

Having said all of this, I would still like to have Edwin Vieira support my interpretation of Miranda.

jon said...

yes, it sounds familiar -- it reminds me of leftists being deported to the soviet union, such as emma goldman.

i suggest that ratifying this treaty, much like signing it, is an act of treason. so, too, would be enforcing it.

Anonymous said...

Steve- can you equip us on WHAT to DO when things like this happen. Maybe a link to senators etc. Who should we talk to etc

JDuke said...

This is amazing to see this continue to proceed. I know what needs to be done but I do fear the government at this point because of the Napolitano threat released the other week prior to the Tea Partys. Looks like we're headed for a showdown.

CorbinKale said...

If the Senate ratifies this Treaty, it will be an act of war.

Anonymous said...

Oathkeepers,this is a clear and deliberate act of subverting the constitution. I may be wrong, but isn't this an act of treason? Is this the domestic enemy we were supposed to protect the constitution from. Did Obama take an oath to defend the constitution? I wonder if the intellectual's in D.C. have any idea what type of hornets nest their about to open...... God help us if they don't,

CaptGooch said...

Anonymous said...

Steve- can you equip us on WHAT to DO when things like this happen. Maybe a link to senators etc. Who should we talk to etc

May 5, 2009 12:14 PM


I'm not Steve BUT I can help with a short list of who you need to Talk to and write and email and go visit. [If at all Possible]

Your Senators [Both of them]
Your Representative [Federal]
Your County Sheriff
Your local Police Chief
All of your neighbors.

Remember we need to Write, Call, email, Visit and in general let them know in no uncertain terms that We the People of these united States do Not agree to any International Treaties that remove or subvert ANY of our Rights and Especially those which are enumerated and Protected by our Constitution and its Bill of Rights.

Sheesh .... This new POTUS is really gonna try to sell us all down the river.
Doesn't he love his daughters ? Why would he sell their rights to the UN ?

CaptGooch said...

There was a similar conversation on a different page and with your permission I would like to re-post a couple of the posts from there to here.

These are from the Post about the FBI snatching [kidnapping] a 16 year old child for online tomfoolery.

CaptGooch said...

Let us take a breath here and examine our options shall we ?

made some suggestions ....
"There are very personal actions one can immediately take: stop supporting this maniacal federal government, limit economic participation, cut/eliminate/dispute all consumer debt and understand that this kid taken in the dead of night could have easily been YOUR kid."

Let us examine these suggestions.

Stop supporting this federal government ....
Yep that is a good suggestion.
In any way that you can and to the extent that you are willing to endure their reaction to you personally. Remember Ed Brown and his wife ? They went all the way to prison to underscore their beliefs about the tax laws.

"Limit economic participation" is pretty much the same idea rephrased isn't it ?

"cut/eliminate/dispute all consumer debt".
I would offer this.
Pay off all of your credit cards and cut them up and use only cash.
Some of the tools being brought to bear against the public is their own credit records and banking records.
If you don't use a bank or credit you can effectively "drop off" of their screens.

Another suggestion I would make is to make sure of what your child is really doing online. It sounds draconian until you compare it to the situation we are reading about here. Ashton Lundeby opened the can of "whoopazz" way before it was time. He and his "buddies" were "playing revolution online thinking they were 'anonymous'" only the Monster from Mordor on the Potomac doesn't "Play well with others".
Not to mention that There Is No anonymity on the web. It's an illusion .... You only think you are anonymous.
Now don't misunderstand me here .... I do NOT think the Feebies should have reacted quite so strongly when they found out it was only a 16 year old child.
Remember this ....The Feebies and all the rest of the alphabet soup goons do not have a sense of humor. Remember they Really think they are protecting America instead of strangling it and chaining it to a NWO dungeon wall.
"It's for your own Good" is their cry.
They don't Yet see the Socialist label on the back of their "marching orders".
Let's work on helping them see the lie in their orders.

Call, write, visit, email every one of your elected professional political parasites and let them know that you will be voting them out of office if they don't make an effort, a very visible effort, to repeal this unconstitutional Act.
Don't let a single day pass without them hearing from you and your neighbors.
Keep reminding them "Politely" [It drives them batty when you are Angry BUT Nice.] that they work for US [We the People] Not the other way around.

There are many who feel severely frustrated and that they feel like there should be "something" they can do but they don't know what it is.

The very first thing anyone here can do is just like the Doctors are supposed to do .... "First Do No Harm."

If people start reacting to this sort of thing with real violence before the Goons themselves use real violence then we lose the moral "high ground" and Millions of people who have no clue as to why, where, what, who and when will accept the Main Stream Media's story that "X number of 'violent domestic terrorists' just HAD to be put down by our federal paramilitary." To save the children of course.
At that point We Lose.
Because we will have struck first. We lose the moral high ground AND we lose the support of the People of these united States.

Let me refer you to Mike V. from Sipsey Street.
He expresses this idea MUCH better than I can.


So you see ?
We must take the body blows until the Goons make the mistake of shooting first. THEN the legitimacy falls to us and we will be supported by every American as well as most of the "free world".

Like Mike says ....

No Fort Sumters.

YES .... It sucks .... to have to watch this sort of injustice, but to over react is exactly what they want us to do.
They are poking the sleeping giant thinking it has given up, rolled over and become "tame".
Don't waste your energies and spoil the Surprise.

In the mean time ....
Make your "public servants" aware of your displeasure with their performance to date, reduce your financial support of the monster, educate your family, friends and neighbors and Prepare.

Don't let the Goons sucker you into losing by reacting without thinking.

Remember Sun Tzu ? The Chinese fellow that wrote the book "The Art Of War" about a thousand years ago ?

He wrote ....

"Choose Your Battles (Battlefields)."
[Read this one about three times only with the accent on a different word each time.]

And ....

"To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill.
To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill."

May 5, 2009 8:13 PM
CaptGooch said...

On Cinco De Mayo
YeOldFurt said...

I contacted my representative Michael McCaul, about this. Hopefully he'll be able to do something. If not, then I know where my vote is going in 2010. That is IF there is an election process in 2010.
= = = = = = = = = = =

Excellent YeOldFurt.

Only don't give him a chance to rest with it. If you called already, now write, then email, and so on and so forth.
You know the drill.
I don't have to tell You.
I only mention it for the others who will read this.

Also it will really help to "chat up" the Sheriff in your county and get a feel for his attitude to the Constitution.
If he's a true American then help him get his troops in line. [Teach then about the Oath and its requirement to not obey unlawful orders.]
IF he is not then Vote the bum out and put in a Sheriff that Does believe in America and her Constitution.

I feel just as frustrated as the next man here BUT we must continue to hold the "high ground".
They cannot win Unless we give it to them by losing our moral high ground.

Numbers are on our side which is why I keep harping on the Reach, Teach and Inspire thing.

If we can reach out to everyone who took the Oath to support and defend the Constitution.
And can teach them to support and defend it instead of subverting it.
At that point we will have won without fighting and all of these Goons who have perpetrated all of these atrocities can and WILL be arrested, convicted and sentenced.

Count on it.

Old Retired First Sergeant said...

With Montana's passing of it's own "guns made here and intended to stay here are not subject to federal legislation", the federals may find themselves firing the second "shot heard round the world" if they attempt to violate Montana law with a raid on a Montana citizen or LEO circumventing federal action.

If that happens, all the treaties in the world won't stop this thing from spreading. I just pray to God the federals aren't that stupid. We can still have peace if they'd just leave us the hell alone!

Anonymous said...

That's all the legally seceded Southern states wanted, was just to be left alone. Lincoln spent his entire time in office dictating unconstitutional action. One of his earliest unconstitutional actions was the invasion of the South. He also directed unconstitutional activity against his own neighbors in the North. I believe that Obama is the 'reincarnation' of Lincoln, and like Lincoln, he thinks he is above the Constitution . . . above the law. This is the typical mentally-unhealthy mindset of a narcissist. Put simply, narcissists believe they are the center of the universe, and as such are very dangerous to society.