Thursday, May 21, 2009

Here We Go!: Obama Is Said to Consider Preventive Detention Plan

So says the NY Times.

Comment from Stewart Rhodes: Folks, this is what I have been expecting and dreading: This is the next phase in the "war on terrorism" being turned inward on us.
Notice how there is no mention of Obama wanting to use "preventive detention" on only non-citizen foreigners. I'll have more to say on the other side. - Stewart


New York Times

May 21, 2009

Obama Is Said to Consider Preventive Detention Plan

WASHINGTON — President Obama told human rights advocates at the White House on Wednesday that he was mulling the need for a “preventive detention” system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried, two participants in the private session said.

The discussion, in a 90-minute meeting in the Cabinet Room that included Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and other top administration officials, came on the eve of a much-anticipated speech Mr. Obama is to give Thursday on a number of thorny national security matters, including his promise to close the detention center at the naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

Human rights advocates are growing deeply uneasy with Mr. Obama’s stance on these issues, especially his recent move to block the release of photographs showing abuse of detainees, and his announcement that he is willing to try terrorism suspects in military commissions — a concept he criticized bitterly as a presidential candidate.

The two participants, outsiders who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the session was intended to be off the record, said they left the meeting dismayed.

They said Mr. Obama told them he was thinking about “the long game” — how to establish a legal system that would endure for future presidents. He raised the issue of preventive detention himself, but made clear that he had not made a decision on it. Several senior White House officials did not respond to requests for comment on the outsiders’ accounts.

“He was almost ruminating over the need for statutory change to the laws so that we can deal with individuals who we can’t charge and detain,” one participant said. “We’ve known this is on the horizon for many years, but we were able to hold it off with George Bush. The idea that we might find ourselves fighting with the Obama administration over these powers is really stunning.”

The other participant said Mr. Obama did not seem to be thinking about preventive detention for terrorism suspects now held at Guantánamo Bay, but rather for those captured in the future, in settings other than a legitimate battlefield like Afghanistan. “The issue is,” the participant said, “What are the options left open to a future president?”

Mr. Obama did not specify how he intended to deal with Guantánamo detainees who posed a threat and could not be tried, nor did he share the contents of Thursday’s speech, the participants said.

He will deliver the speech at a site laden with symbolism — the National Archives, home to the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

Read the rest here.


MORE COMMENTS FROM STEWART RHODES:

I tried, from 2004 onward, to warn conservatives that all of the Bush Administration's extraordinary claimed executive "war powers" would one day be in the hands of their political enemies. I warned them that those enemies would then turn the war on terrorism fully inward, on "right wing" domestic opponents of the regime. I warned that the mechanism would be to accuse people of being "terrorists" in the war on terrorism, and thus unlawful enemy combatants.

I warned that the Bush Administration, in its zeal to go after Islamic terrorists, made no distinction between citizens and non-citizens and claimed the power to treat any American citizen designated as an unlawful enemy combatant exactly the same as a foreign enemy in wartime. I warned that the Supreme Court had rubber stamped this claim of power in the 2004 Hamdi decision. I warned that this power would eventually be used not just against suspected Islamic terrorists, but also against any other American targeted by the government, and that a leftist administration, in particular, would use this power against domestic patriots on the political right. You can read just one of those warnings here (reposted on this site, but originally posted on my personal blog here in 2006).

Well, now it is happening. Though I knew this was coming, even I have been surprised by how swiftly the Obama Administration is moving on this, or how radically it is expanding on the claimed powers.

This doctrine of "Preventive detention" takes the powers asserted by the Bush Admin one step further - they don't even have to accuse you of having done anything related to terrorism. They can just accuse you of being likely to do something. That's what preventive detention means - you detain someone before they do something. It is a concept entirely foreign to our legal system, but it will be ushered in under the guise of being a quisi-war power, in the "war" on terrorism, rather than simply a matter of criminal law. And do not think for a moment that it won't be used on U.S. citizens here at home. It will be.

Again, if you have not read the article I wrote in 2006 on enemy combatant status and how it will likely be turned inward on conservatives, please go read that here.

Did you read it? Good.

Now, think about how this doctrine of preventive detention fits in with "enemy combatant status." If a president can declare you an enemy combatant, based on some nebulous criteria, why can't he also apply preventive detention to you based on mere suspicion you might do something?

And think about how this would fit right in with the relentless government program to smear entire swaths of the political right as potential terrorists.

There was the MIAC report, listing all kinds of conservative views and membership in conservative groups and third political parties as indicators that someone may be a terrorist.



Then there was the DHS report on right wing extremism that did the same, and added returning veterans to the mix of those who just might be a terrorist.




And then the DHS Extremist Lexicon went even further, labeling as "extremists" anyone who is a "constitutionalist" or a "constitutionist" or who belongs to any number of political and social issue advocacy groups, such as folks opposed to abortion or opposed to illegal immigration.



And in that report, the term "extremist" is synonymous with "terrorist" - so what it basically did is label anyone who is a constitutionalist a suspected terrorist.


And then there are these two:

THE NO FLY LIST

Watch this! Rahm Emanuel gave a speach in 2007 to the Brady Center where he argued that anyone on the No Fly List should be stripped of the right to keep and bear arms:



The No Fly List is notorious for being an arbitrary method of labelling someone a "suspected terrorist." Nearly anyone can, and has been, put on that No Fly List. There is no due process, no hearing, nothing. Your name is just put on it. And once on it, good luck getting your name off.

Thus, there is already an established method for labeling any of you a "suspected terrorist." So, the Obama Administration could simply put you on that list, and then apply this doctrine of preventive detention to you.

HR 2401

And now, we see that on May 13, 2009, implementing legislation has been proposed for this idea of using the No Fly List to wipe out the right to bear arms in the form of H.R. 2401, which amends 18 USC Section 922 to add those on the no fly list to the list of prohibited persons who may not purchase, receive or possess a firearm. It is called the No Fly, No Buy Act of 2009, but like many such bills, its title is a lie since it is really a No Fly, No Buy, and NO POSSESS Act since, if you are put on the no fly list, for whatever reason, you cannot possess a firearm at all - just as if you were a convicted felon.
And how, exactly, would you know you have been placed on the no fly list, and can no longer possess your guns? Apparenty, unless you fly and find out, you will know when you are arrested for unlawful possession. And all without a shred of due process. ANYONE can be put on the no fly list, for any reason, simply because your name pops up on some federal agency data base as someone who might be a potential threat to national security.


H.R. 2159: GIVING ATTORNEY GENERAL HOLDER THE POWER TO DESIGNATE ANYONE A "SUSPECTED TERRORIST" OR SUSPECTED SUPPORTER OF TERRORISM.

H.R. 2159, the Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2009 (sponsored by a Repubican, Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y), would enpower the attorney general to deny transfer of a firearm to any "known or suspected dangerous terrorist." As Wordnetdaily reported, "The bill requires only that the potential firearm transferee is "appropriately suspected" of preparing for a terrorist act and that the attorney general "has a reasonable belief" that the gun might be used in connection with terrorism." Actually, it is even worse than that, since it also allows the attorney general to deny a firearm to anyone suspected of supporting terrorism (whatever that means). Who gets to say? The attorney general. By what criteria? Whatever he makes up, just like with the No Fly List - in fact, he could use the already established No Fly List process to make these designations (and can delegate this power to his underlings).

Those are just two examples of what formal mechanisms could be used, and notice that both of those ideas directly target gun owners and would-be gun owners.

And then go and read HR 1955, which was a precursor to this whole regime of smearing, marginalization, and labeling as "terrorists."

Obama really doesn't need any new enabling legislation. He can use the already established No Fly List process, coupled with the claimed power of a president, as commander in chief, to designate American citizens to be unlawful enemy combatants. Still, enabling legislation would lend an additional venere of legitimacy and additional legal cover since he could point to Congress's authorization and argue that he is at the zenith of his claimed war powers.

Folks, the handwriting is on the wall. The war on terror is being turned inward, on you.

Stewart Rhodes

43 comments:

Anonymous said...

Great article. You may need to fix the link for the Rahm Emmanuel speech, as he did not mention the No Fly list in that particular clip. I found it on YouTube though. They are being way too bold! It comes off like they think these policies are foregone conclusions and not some radical, illegal, immoral, attack on our Republic...that in itself speaks volumes.

hANOVER fIST said...

Actually, we have all heard of this way of thinking before - it's the idea of an "existential threat".

Oath Keepers said...

Anon said:

"You may need to fix the link for the Rahm Emmanuel speech, as he did not mention the No Fly list in that particular clip"

Thanks for the heads up. Done.

Brock Townsend said...

It appears that they do not intend for this to come out peacefully.

Anonymous said...

These people are nuts, we Americans are the terrorist, wake up everyone Spread the word. The laws are in place the camps are built. Over 1 million Americans on the no fly list, Vets cants own guns, 1st 2nd amendments under fire, go to fed prison for hurting someones feeling on the internet. These people arn't messing around They need to Kill all americans that fight against the bnkers who are robbing this country, wake up. Scream out loud and call your Reps, Call the white house. And tell them we know what you are doing and it is treson!!!

macebobo said...

Well written! I for one still wonder what we can do. People say vote, and I do, but this is happening with those we have voted into office. People say attend tea parties, those in power just laugh at us. People say pray, I have never stopped and God is in control. But damn it, what do we do? We need some leadership to help mobilize those who think and believe as we do. Where is that leadership? What can I do? I do not want to leave this country the way it is to my children's children. God bless America, someone has to!

Anonymous said...

The peoples of Afghanstan and Iraq are showing the world's people how to defeat The Superpower.

Among the world's people are those living in The Superpower.

drjim said...

Great article! I keep wonder when and where the first shots will be fired.

CorbinKale said...

Thanks for the heads-up. The good news is that any law enforcement personnel that 'just follow orders' to carry out preventive detention, have designated themselves domestic enemies of the Constitution. They will be dealt with, in accordance with my Oath.

Anonymous said...

This is why the Oath Keepers organization is so important.

It's coming. We all know it's coming. These violators of our Constitution; are coming after every American who still believes in our Constitution and our Bill of Rights. They are coming after every one of us who still have the spirit and the will to defend our natural RIGHTS against all enemies both foreign, and increasingly, ever more domestic.

The Oath Keepers are focused on enlightening the military and our law enforcement entities. "Change" in mindset must begin within these two groups, for without their support, the struggle by We The People to restore our Constitution, to preserve our freedom our liberty, our sovereignty and our security could very well be doomed.

Now more than ever, it is imperative for those within law enforcement and still serving in the military to speak to your fellow LEO's and brothers and sisters in arms.

I honestly don't believe we have much time left.

MassPatriot

RSCovey said...

We are all preaching to the choir here.
Went to the source, downloaded, printed and will be passing this out at the Hall today. Also made the Times article a question on SodaHead.com . http://www.sodahead.com/question/391035/obama-why-i-shouldnt-call-him-george-bush-iii/

Let's get out there. Let others know about this. Do what you can, now.

Anonymous said...

Indeed, Mr Rhodes.

The whole power structure of our nation has been completely infiltrated bye traitor's to all this nation has ever stood for.

I suspect round-ups of Patriots will begin within Obama's first term. Myself and many others who have watched things closely for years. Know the legal preperations for such unConstitutional actions have been being put in place for a very long time.

The wild card in play that most of us are not discussing is what actions other major powers in the world are considering against the US.

The New World Order will use every trick in the book to pit nations and peoples against each other, that is thier MO.

I am greatful for all of your efforts, and those behind the scenes at Oath-Keepers.

Thsnk You.

See you in the trenches........

Cowboy18 Out!

David said...

http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/documents/revolution/letters/gfairfax2.html
Philadelphia May 31st 1775.

Dear Sir,

...

Before this Letter can reach you, you must, undoubtedly, have received an Account of the engagement in the Massachusetts Bay between the Ministerial Troops (for we do not, nor cannot yet prevail upon ourselves to call them the King's Troops) and the Provincials of that Government; But as you may not have heard how that affair began, I inclose you the several Affidavits that were taken after the action. [5]

General Gage acknowledges, that the detachment under Lieutenant Colonel Smith was sent out to destroy private property; or, in other Words, to destroy a Magazine which self preservation obliged the Inhabitants to establish. And he also confesses, in effect at least, that his Men made a very precipitate retreat from Concord, notwithstanding the reinforcement under Lord Piercy; the last of which may serve to convince Lord Sandwich (and others of the same sentiment) that the Americans will fight for their Liberties and property, however pusilanimous, in his Lordship's Eye, they may appear in other respects.

From the best accounts I have been able to collect of that affair; indeed from every one, I believe the fact, stripped of all colouring, to be plainly this, that if the retreat had not been as precipitate as it was (and God knows it could not well have been more so) the Ministerial Troops must have surrendered, or been totally cut off: For they had not arrived in Charlestown (under cover of their Ships) half an hour, before a powerful body of Men from Marblehead and Salem were at their heels, and must, if they had happened to have been up one hour sooner, inevitably intercepted their retreat to Charlestown. [6] Unhappy it is though to reflect, that a Brother's Sword has been sheathed in a Brother's breast, and that, the once happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with Blood, or Inhabited by Slaves. Sad alternative! But can a virtuous Man hesitate in his choice? I am, With sincere Regard and Affectionate compliments to Mrs Fairfax, Dear Sir, Your Most obt servant,

G. Washington

Warren Bonesteel said...

You know, Stewart, for once, I have nothing to add to anything you've said, here.

Well done.

Jack said...

What you say is true except for the false left/right paradigm. They're all corrupt and part of the same system. The Dems vs. the Reps. is total bullshit.

RSCovey said...

Jack, I am in 100% agreement with your statement.
This is not a Right/Left issue any longer, and hasn't been for many decades now... possibly since March 27th, 1861.

Anonymous said...

One of the Anonymous folks wrote:

"The wild card in play that most of us are not discussing
is what actions other major powers in the world are con-
sidering against the US."

Among such actions are incineration of the North American
continent without regard for MAD (mutually assured destruc-
tion).

That can't be! Oh, yes it can.

All it requires is the perception by the the top leadership
of at least one major nuclear power that The Superpower has
become so dangerous it must not exist.

RSCovey said...

If it goes nuke, there's not a hell of a lot I or anyone else can do about it... We've known about that possibility since the end of WWII, but (for myself) don't allow it to impede thought processes.
However, if it does go that route, consider neutron activation as the desired method,,, you would want to kill the Americans wholesale and still be able to make some use of the territory.

drjim said...

The Russians always considered the neutron bomb to be "The Ultimate capitalist Weapon", as it would destroy the people, but leave the property intact.

Stewart Rhodes said...

Jack said...

"What you say is true except for the false left/right paradigm. They're all corrupt and part of the same system. The Dems vs. the Reps. is total bullshit."

I think the tone I took in this piece has given you the wrong idea of my position. I agree both parties are corrupt (with few exceptions). And I agree about the false left/right paradigm. For me, it's about liberty vs. tyranny and the Constitution vs. unrestrained government of any kind, whether from the left or the right.

Take a look at my writings over the past four years at my personal blog: http://stewart-rhodes.blogspot.com

My point in this particular piece is that during the Bush years all too many conservatives were complacent or even supportive of what Bush did, because it was their man in power, and now we see Democrats using these claimed powers (built up by Bush) against conservatives. And now many conservatives are rightfully scared. That's a fact. (and my audience lately seems to be made up mostly of conservatives, since most liberals are now the complacent ones, so I tend to speak to the conservatives directly).

But it is also true that this has long been a bipartisan assault on we the people, since the elites of both parties are far more alike than they are dissimilar (I could tell you stories from my days at Yale, observing those elites, that would make you disgusted).

And we have seen both Republicans and Democrats in power support, sponsor, and vote for liberty killing legislation and policies.

HR 1955 is a great example. It passed the house with only six votes against - three Republicans (would have been one more had Ron Paul not been absent) and three Democrats voted against it. ALL the rest, of both parties, voted for it. It is a disaster of a bill. Truly horrid, and it is a bipartisan assault on the Bill of Rights.

And now we see Rep. Peter King sponsoring HR 2159 and joining hands with Rangel and McCarthy, and another sell out Republican, Christopher Smith, to directly assault our right to bear arms.

The two major parties are like a one way ratchet of tyranny. They often work together to violate the Constitution, but even when they are supposedly adversarial, they just take turns in the driver's seat, but each moving us one step closer to absolute despotism and slavery, with the only difference being the rhetoric and the particular part of the Constitution each assaults.

I am speaking of the elites within both major parties. The rank and file are very different. It has been my experience, especially out West, that the rank and file within the Republican party are still real conservatives and still care about the Constitution.

I saw this when I sat on the platform committee at the Nevada Republican Convention - real "salt of the earth" rural conservatives who supported several very liberty oriented planks, such as repealing McCain/Feingold, repealing the Patriot Act, repealing the Military Commissions Act (once I explained why it was so dangerous), and also a plank recognizing and supporting the full power of a jury to judge the law as well as the facts (again, once I explained how that has always been a power of a jury, from the time of the Penn and Zengler trials).

That platform also passed on the floor and is now the official platform of the Nevada GOP (to the horror of the McCain camp!).

And those conservative Nevadan's did that when the GOP still had the White House - so to their credit they listened and made decisions based on what they thought was constitutional even while in power.

So, while I have lost all faith in the leadership and elites at the top of the Republican Party (the head is rotten) I still have faith in the majority of the rank and file. And now, with Obama in power, more and more of them are waking up to the danger we are in and becoming more consistent in their defense of the Constitution.

Stewart

Stewart Rhodes said...

CONTINUED

Also, Jack, I do hope that all the liberals who opposed Bush's violations of the Constitution will be consistent and also oppose Obama's violations, but human nature being what it is, I am not holding my breath.

However, it is true that there is a sizable portion of the population who have woken up to the false left/right paradigm and who are consistent, and do oppose unconstitutional, liberty stealing laws and edicts, regardless of which party is in power. The Ron Paul Republicans, the libertarians, the Constitution Party members, and just plain constitutionalist and "patriot" rank and file, and many independents, tend to oppose the assaults on the Constitution of both the major parties, regardless of who is in power. And there are some on the left who also tend to be more consistent in their defense of the Bill of Rights.

I hope and pray that this portion of the population, those who simply stand for liberty and the Constitution against all assaults, grows and grows.

That is one of the reasons I founded Oath Keepers. We need to get back to the common ground and common heritage of liberty that belongs to all of us, and it is vitally important that such an awakening take place especially among the police and military. Tyranny cannot come without their consent.

For the Republic,

Stewart Rhodes

Sassy Cat said...

In my opinion, Obama's new strategy is geared to circumvent groups such as OathKeepers from implementing the "illegal orders we will not obey" doctrine by claiming "Preventative Detention" is constitutional,... even though it isn't.
No doubt Obama's strategy will be clothed in such nebulous language as to make the actual facts of the matter indescernable to the average oath taker when facing the need to make a distinction between an legal order, and one that is not.

Rachel Maddow's commentary regarding this on YouTube:

Anonymous said...

At URL--

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/05/22/preventive_detention/

Friday May 22, 2009 09:23 EDT

Glenn Greenwald

Facts and myths about Obama's preventive detention proposal
[Updated below - Update II (Interview with ACLU) - Update III -
Update IV - Update V - Update VI]

Quote:

"Once known, the details of the proposal could -- and likely will --
make this even more extreme by extending the 'preventive detention'
power beyond a handful of Guantanamo detainees to anyone, anywhere
in the world, alleged to be a 'combatant.'

After all, once you accept the rationale on which this proposal is
based -- namely, that the U.S. Government must, in order to keep us
safe, preventively detain 'dangerous' people even when they [the Gov]
can't prove they violated any laws -- there's no coherent reason what-
soever to limit that power to people already at Guantanamo, as opposed
to indefinitely imprisoning with no trials all allegedly 'dangerous'
combatants, whether located in Pakistan, Thailand, Indonesia, Western
countries and even the U.S."

Anonymous said...

drjim wrote:

"I keep wonder[ing] when and where the first shots will
be fired."

At URL--

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/24/breaking_the_law/

John Ozimek

24th May 2009 06:02 GMT

If they can break the law, why can't we? Establishment
bad behaviour weakens rule of law

Quote:

"Lies, spin and establishment contempt for the rules by
which the rest of the population are meant to live, are
nothing new.

It is just possible, however, that the last few weeks have
been a tipping point, with large swathes of the population
now questioning just why they should adhere to the letter
of the law when others don’t.

More seriously, if this resentment spills over into active
disobedience, then for a while at least, the British popu-
lation may become just that bit less governable

--with all the implications that may have for added costs
of law enforcement."

illbfrank said...

Although I am networking as much as I can, I am not in contact with many people. I do see that many are beginning to grumble about the many situations, but they mostly believe what the main stream media spoon feeds them. I encourage them to check out the Oath-Keepers site as well as sites like GCN Live, News With Views, etc. This way, when they are exposed to more truth, then they too, can affect others that they are in contact with. Sometimes I feel so alone, but your site encourages me that this is not so.

How do we network in order to become organized? What will we do if TSHTF without warning? How will we know if/when the first volley erupts? What do we do if another Ruby Ridge or Waco happens?

Where is our line in the sand? My God, has it not already been crossed?

I Am An AMERICAN

CaptGooch said...

illbfrank said...
Although I am networking as much as I can, I am not in contact with many people. I do see that many are beginning to grumble about the many situations, but they mostly believe what the main stream media spoon feeds them.
[snip] [snip]
How do we network in order to become organized? What will we do if TSHTF without warning? How will we know if/when the first volley erupts? What do we do if another Ruby Ridge or Waco happens?
Where is our line in the sand? My God, has it not already been crossed?
I Am An AMERICAN
May 25, 2009 8:28 AM
----------------------------------

illbfrank

Steady there big fella .... Have no fear you will know when the balloon goes up.
Remember the parasite propaganda mavens say "If it bleeds it Leads ...." meaning that blood and violence always make the 6 o'clock news so you will know when and IF.

Line in the sand .... ?
Have a look at our 10 orders page and you will see that we have a very distinct line. No unlawful orders.

Meanwhile stay centered and keep keeping on as they used to say back in the 60's.
[yeah I am that ancient ....]

Keep Reaching out, Teaching all that you can and Inspiring all of the oath takers to join us and become Oath Keepers.



For the Republic

Elias Alias said...

Shock And Awe

I'm sure I'm not the only American who is in shock after having discovered *what* has kidnapped our once-representative government. The government which our Founders created has been silently replaced by an imposter government which stands now poised to levy our own law enforcement and military against us at random, based on a distant centralized government's opinion only. No due process. No charges.

The MAIC report this past February was a loud and clear announcement of governmental intent, and it revealed how every American is now a potential enemy of the government. I'm a threat to this government because I supported Ron Paul in last year's campaign. And in April of this year the DHS noted that returning war veterans are potentially dangerous to this government.

I am in shock, and I am in awe of a centralized power such as this, which will unabashedly belch forth this kind of treason against the very people who support the Constitution. The irony is that the Constitution which now appears to this government to be an encumbrance and an obstruction to this government's objectives, is the very document which birthed the Federal government in the first place.

Have we the people lost our minds, or has our government lost its way? Worse, has our government been replaced by an imposter government? Is this government representing the will of the people? Does it reflect our values, our morality, our ethic, our home and family, our very souls? And does this government itself not now threaten our very security? I say this government is not the government created by our nation's Founders. I am here to remind this imposter government that my oath was to the constitution and not to any government which cannot honor that founding legal charter.

Herein we see the great need for, and value in, Oath Keepers. Take cheer, good soldiers! The Beast has shown its hideous face in governmental proclamation, intrusive and offensive legislation, usurpation of this nation's monetary issuance, and a fascism consisting of the marriage of Wall Street and Washington D.C. The government itself has demarked our line in the sand. Now Americans are rearranging in our minds and hearts the order of allegiance and obedience to the government, and our allegiance and obedience to our individual consciences, to our homes, to our families and relatives, to our local neighborhoods, to our industry, to our commerce amongst ourselves, to our religious freedom, to our stated and enumerated inalienable rights as individual human beings, to our inherent right and ability to govern ourselves.

Though the world itself be swallowed up by this New World Order, and though their emissaries are now congregated in the very heart of our Judicial, Executive, and Legislative bodies, and though the financial powers of globalism march to assimilate our beloved America, we, the people, are yet afforded one more opportunity to awaken to our peril and to rise up against this iron net of tyranny, and reclaim our great nation for the people and our posterity.

All we need to do this is the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, as written - that, and the willful awakening of our good neighbors across this land to the true nature and spirit of this Federalized threat. Too long we have slept in a bed made of convenience, creature comforts, and constitutional concessions, and all the while, as we peaceful people slept, those who sought to conquer us from within have tip-toed into our very seats of governmental power.

(continued next post)

Elias Alias said...

(continuing from above post)

And now to attempt an answer for a question posted recently here - It is my view that nothing needs to be "organized" outside a dedicated organized approach to spreading the word of the truths which today are readily visible to anyone who seeks the truth. This is a personal battle for each one of us, for all Americans individually.

Laws which empower an impersonal government over we citizens are not cherished by the letter and spirit of our founding documents. I will not list here the roles played by the NEA, the AMA, the AHA, the great tax-exempt Foundations, the Federal Reserve, the IRS, covert departments in our Intelligence community, etc. The thrust and aim of governmental edict today says it all more plainly than any recital of 20th Century history. We cannot face this as on a battlefield, for the entire might and force of the U.S. Defense Department and the Justice Department, which includes a nationally-interfaced law enforcement community, stands arrayed against us.

To face that and fight it is suicide and worse - it is divisive. Our LEOs and Service personnel are our family members and our neighbors, fellow patriots who believe they are doing the right thing. Educating them is the surest sword we can wield, as the testimonies on this website reveal. Oath Keepers is not advocating the violation of any law. Oath Keepers is simply asking government to obey its own laws, that we might follow suit.

And Oath Keepers is asking all Oath Takers to honor their oaths with sacred gravity. That should be all that is necessary to reclaim our beloved country. So we advocate spreading the education of our Constitution, and illustrating to one and all how this current imposter government is operating outside the legal charter which created it and commissioned it to serve we the people.

I think that is about as American as it gets. We are the people. We are the true source of all power. And we can rescind our once-granted powers, until such time as that imposter is exposed and abandoned, left to fall of its own dead weight. Many brave law enforcement officers and active duty military who have come in here and given their word publicly to uphold and honor their oaths.

Let us hold their spirit closely inside our hearts, and let us speak out at rallies, Tea Parties, and other public outreach activities. The powers have lost control over the flow of information, as Basil Fishbone has noted, and our awakening knowledge is now available to the masses, thanks to Al Gore's gift of the Internet. I am encouraged by the content of this young website. Our only mission is spreading the meaning contained in that oath to the Constitution.

Oath Keepers belongs to no political party, nor to any corporate lobby. We belong to you. United we shall stand, and, in this country at least, the New World Order shall fall.

I close with this missive -

“In a government of laws, the existence of the government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our government is the potent, the omnipotent, teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. If government becomes a lawbreaker it breeds contempt for the law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself. It invites anarchy.” ~ Justice Louis D. Brandeis

Salute!
Elias

RSCovey said...

drjim said...
"The Russians always considered the neutron bomb to be "The Ultimate capitalist Weapon", as it would destroy the people, but leave the property intact."

consider N. Korea... might be a random thought, but there ya go.

lovemeorleaveme said...

I would like to know what we are going to do about this Detention rule?

Sitting on a blog and writing is not going to help us.

We need to contact all police officers and military and let them know what is going on!

We need to contact those in Congress that we trust..which are not many....and ask them how WE can help!

What do you say about that?

CaptGooch said...

lovemeorleaveme said...
I would like to know what we are going to do about this Detention rule?
======================
Your idea of writing to our elected representation is a good one I already have myself.
AND ... We will resist. Each of us as we see fit.
======================
Sitting on a blog and writing is not going to help us.
We need to contact all police officers and military and let them know what is going on!
======================
Which is exactly what this entire blog is about isn't it ?
Have a look around and Welcome by the way.
======================
We need to contact those in Congress that we trust..which are not many....and ask them how WE can help!
What do you say about that?
May 26, 2009 5:40 PM
======================
Well .... Personally I don't have anyone in Congress or the Senate that I do or would trust. MAYBE One.

As to your Idea .... I think it is an excellent idea and any and all that want to should make every effort to contact their elected representatives in Washington and Insist on the removal or banning of this "Preventative Detention" concept.
In fact I already have written to my three 3P's.

All of them have violated their Oath to support and defend the Constitution, in my opinion, by allowing most of the absolutely and totally unconstitutional laws to stand without a challenge.

If they were to honor their Oath they would have to remove or repeal nearly all of the "Laws" on the books.

There are several elected representatives [including the senate] that appear to be on the side of the Constitution and the original Republic but even they don't make any serious attempt to repeal the most egregious of the unconstitutional "laws" the so-called "gun laws".



For the Republic

Anonymous said...

I am disturbed by the degree of alienation that I hear on this blog. You would think, from some of the comments, that your friends and relatives are being oppressed, jailed for no reason, and are otherwise being harassed by the government. I doubt that anyone can present concrete evidence that this is the case. You live in a society where individual freedom has been maximized to the greatest extent reasonable and possible. If the government does not want you to keep a nuclear weapon in your back yard, then I have no sympathy for you. I am concerned that this type of movement will morph into a violent movement. Some of you seem to be hinting at that in your posts. You will be on the wrong side of the law in that case. You need to chill out and not exaggerate the dangers that you believe exist.

macebobo said...

Anon, I respectfully disagree. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KmgCT5abSA It has already started.

RSCovey said...

Dear Annon,
If you feel like reporting me to the Feds, do so. My full, legal name is Randall Scott Covey.


Have you not recognized an out of control and un Constitutional government, one that has been lording over you since birth? Have not your rights,freedoms and indeed your responsibilities been stymied by rules, regs and laws you have never even heard of? It is assumed that we (Citizens)know all these, yet even those who vote them into "Law" do not read them

Do you know that when you are born, your birth certificate is sent to D.C. Not to the Census Bureau, not to HHS, but to the Department of Commerce. They want to know just what this little foot print will mean in gold and blood.

The dollar which sits in your pocket is worth 3 cents, when compared with the same dollar printed in 1913 when the Federal Reserve first started manipulating the currency artificially.

Google Maj.Gen. Smedly Butler, USMC. Twice decorated with the Congressional Medal of Honor during his 33+ year service to this Country.
Dare you...

You haven't had freedom since 1871, my friend.

You haven't had Constitutionally mandated good Governance since 1861.

Apparently we see more than you. We see the government bringing in shipments of drugs, and arresting others doing the same if they are not on the list of "safe operators".
We see mercenaries walking the streets of America in New Orleans, usurping police powers.
We see Active duty military personnel patrolling the streets of Sampson AL... our Brothers. ignorant of law sent out on an unlawful mission. In this specific case, I expect the young to be made to pay for the crimes of their elders, yet once again.

We see the "Laws", orders, intelligence reports... there are no more real secrets from us.

Yet you come here to berate us for our preparedness in the face of a foe who will fucking enslave every damn one of us.

How DARE YOU, SIR!

If you do not have the balls to stand before the steel rain which approaches, then stand the hell out of the way for Men and Woman who are your betters.

Fear I understand. Cowardice is something else again...

Wade said...

I am NOT police military or any thing else but an Americam. I have never served. Iam 53 years old and ready to die fighting this government. I know this is a bold question...How and When do we declare the government as it stands as an enemy of the people?
would this not open up some eyes ,hearts and minds?

Anonymous said...

To: RSCovey,

It is neither fear nor cowardice which prompts my response. Rather it is having the intelligence not to be taken in by delusions. You and other are deluded and paranoid to such an extent that you believe the government has been taken over by traitors. I don't see any indication of that at all. But I suppose Timothy McVeigh believed that also. He was deluded by a paranoid idealogy, just as you are deluded by a paranoid idealogy. Stick to facts that can be proven by evidence. Don't believe everything that you read on the Internet, especially from far right sites.

CaptGooch said...

Hello and Welcome Wade,

Quote:
" Wade said...
I am NOT police military or any thing else but an Americam. I have never served. Iam 53 years old and ready to die fighting this government. I know this is a bold question...How and When do we declare the government as it stands as an enemy of the people?
would this not open up some eyes ,hearts and minds?
May 29, 2009 8:02 PM
------------------------------

We are doing so Wade with each and every post on this blog.
Which is one reason why I will continue to remind all of us here to Reach, Teach and Inspire.

Reach out to all of our fellow Oath takers and the general public as well.

Teach them if they didn't know or have "forgotten" the responsibilities they [we] agreed to when they [we] swore that Oath.

To Inspire is the ultimate goal.
Inspire all oath takers to become Oath Keepers.
Inspire all of our Active Duty or Reserve Military and Active Duty or Reserve Peace Officers to Keep the Oath they swore and to refuse to Obey any unlawful order no matter the source of that order.

Wade your coming here and then sending others here as well as discussing these "issues" with your family and neighbors is Reach, Teach and Inspire.

Learn as much as you possibly can about Constitutional Republican Government so you can answer questions for others and "grow" our members. Here is an excellent place to start.

constitution.org




For the Republic

CaptGooch said...

Anonymous said...
To: RSCovey,
It is neither fear nor cowardice which prompts my response. Rather it is having the intelligence not to be taken in by delusions. You and other are deluded and paranoid to such an extent that you believe the government has been taken over by traitors. I don't see any indication of that at all. But I suppose Timothy McVeigh believed that also. He was deluded by a paranoid idealogy, just as you are deluded by a paranoid idealogy. Stick to facts that can be proven by evidence. Don't believe everything that you read on the Internet, especially from far right sites.
May 30, 2009 4:27 PM
---------------------------------

Not fear or cowardice Mr hiding in anonymity Anonymous ?

We are not a right wing [either far or near] extremist group sirrah.

We are veterans and active duty military, reserves and peace officers who can plainly see the direction this administration and the previous ten administrations are leading us towards and we are not going to allow our country to become a minor member in the New World Order.

Paranoid ? Delusional ?
Explain these away Mr Anonymous.

www.cato.org/raidmap/

What kind of government allows this sort of behavior ? A Fascist government.

Better yet why don't you go back to your LazyBoy and watch some TV they should be broadcasting what you are supposed to believe with "film at eleven".

Begone agent provocateur.

RSCovey, don't even waste your time with this troll.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL.

Anonymous said...

Capt Gooch,

The link you give has mostly instances of mistakes by local police. Mistakes by the same sort of organizations that the Oath Keepers seek to draw support from. There is no evidence of a fascist government trying to oppress its people. In a country of 300 million people and thousands of points of contacts between local police and citizens, there will be mistakes. This does not mean that there is a concerted fascist plan to rule the nation.

I also an a veteran of the Vietnam era. I also believe that the Constitution should be followed. But that includes following the rule of law and abiding by the courts interpretation of what that law is. In the final analysis, we won't go wrong by supporting the courts, including the Supreme Court. I have more confidence in the courts than in the legal interpretation of Joe Six Pack or Joe Construction Worker.

Mike Florey said...

Well done, Wade. Its certain that in the very near future, there will be a need, a desperate need for people who will not shy away from their duty as a citizen.

CaptGooch said...

Anonymous said...
Capt Gooch,
The link you give has mostly instances of mistakes by local police.
[snip] [snip]
This does not mean that there is a concerted fascist plan to rule the nation.
I also an a veteran of the Vietnam era. I also believe that the Constitution should be followed. But that includes following the rule of law and abiding by the courts interpretation of what that law is. In the final analysis, we won't go wrong by supporting the courts, including the Supreme Court. I have more confidence in the courts than in the legal interpretation of Joe Six Pack or Joe Construction Worker.
May 30, 2009 7:02 PM
--------------------------------
In response I will refer to the current and recent actions of our current administration.
The day that this Congress allowed nay authorized the first bailout wherein a bank or any American company became the property of the Government we became a Fascist country. For that is the definition of a fascist country. One where the government owns the business and banking functions of the country.
That IS where we are now.


You don't seem to be able to understand the Constitution is not supposed to be interpreted. It is supposed to be read. Period.

"The Proper Use of the Constitution of the united States of America" being an example by a retired boat captain with no law degree to get in my way and clutter up my thinking or my understanding.

Congress passes a law.
Somebody complains about that law.
The complaint rises through the court system.
The supreme court decides to see if the new law in any way violates the Ultimate Law of the Land. [The Constitution]
[They even don't have to if they can see it is wrong from a mile away ....]
The new law either does or does not violate some portion of the Constitution.
If it does it is ruled unconstitutional and is struck down.
If it does not then it is ruled constitutional and allowed to stand.

Interpretation is not anywhere in the process UNLESS one is trying to subvert the Constitution so that their new law can be come "legal" even though it violates the Law of the Land, the Yardstick of Jurisprudence of these united States, the Constitution of the united States of America.

This is exactly why this stuff is NOT taught in our schools any more.
It is so simple that only lawyers and professional political parasites are confused by it and usually only when they are trying to find a way to get another unconstitutional law passed.

The courts that insist on "interpreting" the Constitution are in reality trying their best to twist that Constitution so that their obviously unlawful new law can become "acceptable".

to be continued ....

CaptGooch said...

continued from above ....

When you use a Yardstick do you accept that it is the correct length or do you sometimes decide that the piece of string is right and the yardstick is, for some unknown reason, too long or too short ?
If we sit and talk about it long enough we can "interpret" that yardstick into only a "little bit over" three feet and so we can still use our 28" string as it is without having to go back and make it right. [longer]

Do you argue with your tape measure and settle on 38 inches as three feet for today ? [and we'll just have to wait and see how many inches are in three feet tomorrow ?]
That would be "interpreting" the tape measure.

Don't you find it at all disconcerting that the Supreme Court GAVE ITSELF the Exclusive Right to decide what the Constitution says ?
Read up on your history. That "right" is nowhere mentioned in the Constitution. They gave it to themselves and only recently like in our lifetimes.
[The image of the fox giving himself the henhouse guard duty job springs to my mind.]

The Constitution says the Supremes are supposed to judge whether the new legislation is or is not Lawful as measured against the .... Constitution. Period.

Joe Six Pack or Joe Construction Worker are, in my opinion, at least a lot more honest than the professional political parasites we have "working" for us in Washington now and I intentionally include the Supremes.
They at least are not sucking at the taxpayers wallets for life without any means of being fired except being found guilty of a "high crime", resigning on their own or death.

Now the socialist thinking Mr Obama wants to put a woman on the bench that has clearly said that the courts are "where laws are made".
Uhm ... in case you didn't know .... that is totally unconstitutional. Laws are ONLY made in Congress.


I want to Thank You for your service to our country and say a belated Welcome Home.


I will hope that you do some reading on the Constitution and its Constitutional Republic form of governance.
One good place to start is here ... constitution.org .

In the meanwhile I do hope that you intend to Keep and Honor your Oath.


For the Republic

RSCovey said...

"RSCovey, don't even waste your time with this troll.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL."


The urge to B-tch slap has passed. Please forgive the outburst.